<vashti> I got to Redeker.
<vashti> I'm just wondering if there was a plan like that in Japan.
<vashti> I'm pretty certain the reason Light and his family are alive at all is because of their privilege, because of Soichiro's level in the bureaucracy.
<vashti> BTW, what he's getting at there is that the reason he exists is that he wouldn't SHUT UP.
<vashti> he's alive because he wants to live.
<vashti> He doesn't approve.
<vashti> Of course.
<ellie> Of course! XD
<vashti> dude, I think he's the sanest one in here.
<vashti> How the hell did that happen?
<ellie> Bigger things to worry about?
<ellie> Moar perspective?
<vashti> Perspective, yes.
<vashti> Do we have a date for the Great Panic?
<ellie> July 2004.
<ellie> I just stole the one Suz was using. :D
<ellie> because it *kind of* lines up with L dying, so the kids leave the House about the same time.
<vashti> It's a few months before L dies.
<ellie> I don't know what happened to wwz!verse L.
<vashti> He writes the report, doesn't he.
<ellie> Or is in on it, yeah.
<vashti> or assists with it.
<vashti> I wonder how early there are signs.
<ellie> I got the impression it worked west from China.
<ellie> But people would've been aiming for the US and UK for medical help, I bet.
<vashti> west from china.
<vashti> And they can live in water.
<ellie> I was guessing it took Mello a long time to get from Winchester back to the Ukraine.
<ellie> Because everything would've been in stages of collapsing.
<ellie> Like, two or three months at least.
<vashti> I'm just trying to overlap the timelines.
<vashti> I can bump the DN one forward, or back.
<vashti> basically, I want him to get the notebook in the last stages before the panic.
<vashti> so that rather than thinking OOH, I CAN TEST THIS AND USE IT TO CHANGE THE WORLD
<vashti> it's Ryuk's appearance that clues him in.
<vashti> again, it stabilises him. but *differently*.
<vashti> He asks people their names. "what's your name again? *smile*"
<ellie> It's a trump card? Plus, Ryuk.
<vashti> ryuk - is fascinated by what he sees, I think. The world is burning, and he's right there in it.
<ellie> Oh my, yes.
<vashti> I think he takes pity on Light and his family, to some extent.
<vashti> He does it in canon. He kind of likes Misa.
<vashti> He *does* respond to odd things. you remember the funeral scene where Light just *loses it entirely* and Ryuk gives him the Flat Stare.
<ellie> And Light's a reason/excuse to stay inthe human world and watch the shit hit the fan.
<vashti> Yep, exactly.
<vashti> I'm thinking about "I'm not on Kira or L's side", and how that factors in to the changed situation.
<vashti> because you know nobody on that boat sleeps.
<ellie> Would he be on the *humans'* side?
<vashti> He's not going to assist Light with his crusade.
<vashti> But at the same time, he does things like go to Mikami.
<vashti> He runs errands.
<vashti> Light manipulates him into looking for the cameras. Does that happen all along?
<ellie> But Ryuk's the one who tips Light off about Raye.
<vashti> He is.
<vashti> "it's creeping me out here."
<vashti> Plus, if Light is killed, like you say, it's back to the shinigami realm for Ryuk.
<ellie> I think Ryuk has a sort of weird sense of fair play?
<ellie> In that he doesn't want Light to have unfair advantage, but he'll prevent L from gaining unfair advantages too.
<vashti> Which is - why he kills him at the end, isn't it.
<vashti> Rather than helping him.
<vashti> Light's not *playing fair*. *_*
<vashti> "if you need to ask me for help, you really have lost"
<ellie> Or kind of like... Light cheated and still lost.
<vashti> I wonder if it's possible he sees Light lose himself, and doesn't like it.
<vashti> But there's no sign of that.
<vashti> He *approves* of Light losing it. It's interesting, if alarming to watch.
<vashti> but where I'm going with this.
<ellie> I think he's... not offended, but annoyed, by Light asking for his help after he made it clear all along that wasn't in the cards.
<vashti> is that I do have this image of Light having a kind of serenity on the boat. He tells Sachiko and Sayu "it's okay, they're not coming."
<vashti> and he knows they aren't, because Ryuk will tell him.
<vashti> Ryuk's his early warning system.
<vashti> And I see him suffering all kinds of indignities. There's not enough food. He has to talk people into sharing it, or manipulate them, or steal it, or trade for it.
<vashti> Maybe he kills for it. That's what I'm not sure about.
<vashti> and I think he curls up at night and hugs the book under his clothes and weeps. /I won't. I *could*, but I won't./
<vashti> it's interesting, isn't it.
<vashti> people are stealing food, locking it up, hoarding it. Does he kill them?
<vashti> If he does, *is it wrong?*
<ellie> But there's also the whole thing about humans being an endangered species.
<vashti> I know.
<vashti> And killing another human being is the worst thing you can do.
<ellie> It's really an interesting world for a notebook-having Light to be in!
<vashti> I think he uses it for euthanasia in the hospital.
<vashti> there are no drugs, pretty much, they're worse off than your basic third-world field hospital.
<vashti> Light is ingenious, and clever, and frighteningly intelligent and determined, and the training he gets by *actually having to do shit* fits him for what he does better than a medical degree would have.
<vashti> but, he stockpiles medical texts, and reads them. He wants to know it all. Wants to learn. He finds a different calling.
<vashti> if there's ham radio, there's still internet.
<vashti> believe it.
<ellie> Hahaha. XD
<ellie> Never underestimate geeks!
<vashti> back to the days of RTTY. Everything coming in at 9k6 over the airwaves.
<vashti> packet transmission and uucp.
<ellie> omg yes!
<vashti> So there's information sharing.
<vashti> and Light, I think, has chosen what he does because he wants to try and cure the thing. Once and for all.
<vashti> stop it coming up and coming back.
<vashti> But in the position he's in ...
<vashti> it's very unlikely he'll be able to. it's very unlikely *anyone* will be able to. it sounds like something prion-based, doesn't it? carried in the brain and the spinal fluid? like BSE.
<vashti> we can't cure that *now*.
<vashti> we haven't cured the common cold, let alone HIV in the 30 years we've had.
<vashti> But he wants to. Thinks it's the most useful thing he can learn.
<vashti> and Light does like to be useful.
<ellie> If he could, it would be an opposite path to worship from the Kira way.
<vashti> It would, wouldn't it.
<ellie> He'd be... he WOULD be like a god.
<vashti> But he doesn't need it.
<vashti> He's not that 17 year old kid who needed the world to acknowledge him.
<vashti> he's seen too much, he's done too much.
<ellie> he has the drive to improve the world, but not the ego invested in it.
<vashti> He's still bitter, of course. of *course*. still feels personally cheated. he's seen his whole world die in front of him.
<vashti> but he *is* strong. and he survives it.
<vashti> And he has an external target for his anger.
<vashti> honestly, it's a shame someone can't scoop him up and take him off to wherever they're working on it. because you know they are, somewhere.
<vashti> half of wammy's house is probably in on it.
<vashti> But Light's a refugee. He'll never be noticed.
<vashti> and isn't that a shame.
<ellie> Yeah. I'm pretty sure Near's in on it. Probably L.
<vashti> (now, what if he met up with someone who could *get* him involved in the mansion. wouldn't that be interesting.)
<ellie> Xyzzy probably could.
<ellie> Mello... cut those ties.
<vashti> see, now I have a vision of their being like mailing lists and stuff.
<vashti> where people are still discussing.
<vashti> technology leaps backwards in giant strides.
<vashti> and people are polling out for mail over the radio. Everything handcranked, or powered by, like, water wheels and shit.
<vashti> everything that can be pressed into producing power made to do so.
<vashti> I'm sure the array of tents which is the central hospital has a computer and radio. Limited power.
<vashti> and Light probably acquires responsibility for the computer and radio shit early on by being so good with it.
<vashti> so he's not out of touch with the rest of the world. interesting.
<ellie> Heh, he might be better-informed than Mello.
<vashti> he would be better informed if I'd finish the boook.
<ellie> The info blackout applies to soldiers, not officers, but they still have terrible equipment, are on the road a lot, etc.
<vashti> depending on how blacked out they are, radio jamming might be in effect, though.
<ellie> Mello's probably out of range of almost any possible contact in parts of Siberia?
<ellie> You know more about this than I do!
<vashti> I'm making shit up!
<vashti> it's all open to revision, obviously.
<ellie> I'll probably spend tomorrow after sleeps rereading and making notes.
<vashti> but a situation like that.
<ellie> Well, today, LOL 3:30 AM.
<vashti> information and food are the two main currencies.
<vashti> if the camps are run by the military, I bet all the signage is in Russian, too.
<vashti> or russian on top and japanese beneath.
<vashti> talk about humiliating.
<vashti> I think nationalism, certainly cultural nationalism, is rife.
<ellie> Yeah, they probably at least *tried* to include Japanese
<vashti> but it's bad.
<vashti> quickly corrected, but bad.
<ellie> But there'd definitely be a lot of resentment.
<vashti> very strong traditionalism emerging in what's left of the culture.
<vashti> "we were a great nation and now we're nothing."
<vashti> "like hell."
<vashti> Did you see what I wrote about his Sayu?
<ellie> And I think Mello's ambition sort of gets channeled into the Holy Russian Empire thing when being L is off the table/irrelevant.
<vashti> It would make sense. He'd need a substitute too.
<ellie> In the tags to Kai?
<ellie> I saw!
<vashti> yeah. I don't think she copes well. :/
<ellie> I wouldn't think so. D:
<vashti> the shock of the end of the world is greater than that of being kidnapped.
<ellie> And she's younger when that happens.
<vashti> She's, like, 16 at most.
<vashti> or 15.
<ellie> Poor Sayu.
<vashti> Sachiko holds up.
<ellie> Because she has to.
<vashti> Sayu kind of ... potters. She's not by any means unique.
<vashti> she hides, she mumbles.
<vashti> She sees them everywhere.
<vashti> she helps Sachiko with little things.
<ellie> D: Yeah. That seems to fit.
<vashti> But yeah. I can see them developing into kind of a warlike culture. :/
<vashti> greater japan, etc.
<ellie> Like Russia.
<vashti> They don't just get decimated 20 times over or more by the zombies, they end up shut up in camps by the russians.
<vashti> They're Bajor.
<vashti> and there are some very harsh AUs for the Bajorans, where they end up militaristic, jingoistic.
<vashti> And I can see it. All the old threads of Japanese right-wing politics weave back together.
<vashti> they'll *make* themselves a force to be reckoned with again.
<ellie> Because it's sort of like the world is wide open for the taking again.
<ellie> (This is something that has occurred to Mello.)
<vashti> Because they need to believe in themselves.
<vashti> in *anything*.
<vashti> they want their country back. and to get it back ... how are they going to, a handful of people living in tents?
<vashti> (Though, they choose to be in the tents, which quickly become makeshift yurts because Kamchatka is fucking cold and locked in snow for months of the year.)
<vashti> inside is a trap. I think xyzzy is the same.
<ellie> I think Mello is too!
<vashti> yurts are closed in, warm, easy to heat.
<vashti> and if the worst happens you can slice your way out.
<ellie> I think Mello is going to get *very* antsy in a place with no real exits that would be impossible to truly secure to boot.
<vashti> Light will just ...
<vashti> He won't be able to sleep in the rooms.
<vashti> At all.
<vashti> Losing Ryuk will really impact on him.
<vashti> if he has to lose the notebook too... :/
<vashti> I really hope we can justify him keeping it.
<vashti> I cannot envisage him using the thing in the mansion.
<vashti> but he'll like the libraries.
<ellie> I can't see him using it either.
<vashti> He won't use it *and he won't give it up*.
<vashti> Won't tell anyone about it.
<vashti> well, unless a room tricks it out of him.
<ellie> It's his security blanket.
<vashti> it's stalky and his talisman again.
<vashti> It's what stands between Light and the hell his world's become.
<ellie> Oooh, yes.
<vashti> and I think if anything happens to Sachiko he probably takes Sayu to live at the hospital.
<vashti> he already barely leaves it.
<vashti> keeps an eye on her, keeps her close.
<vashti> Looks out for her.
<vashti> though, I don't think that happens for a while.
<vashti> and you know what would really suck, would be if someone found the book hidden on him, one way or another.
<vashti> L would just burn it before Light got a chance to defend himself.
<vashti> and he'd never be able to defend himself.
<vashti> c'mon, a Light with a death note? what else would you do?
<ellie> L wouldn't even spare a thought for extenuating circumstances.
<vashti> Not for a second.
<vashti> And he really shouldn't.
<vashti> I - don't actually believe in black magic. not even in the DN context. I think the way Light responds to the book is all about him.
<vashti> and what he does.
<vashti> that colours the way I write about it, and I know it's not a common view.
<ellie> I don't think anything *compels* him to use the notebook other than human curiosity at first.
<vashti> No, precisely.
<vashti> the "oh it has a dark power!!" is still him justifying to himself.
<vashti> "hey, I didn't just kill a man because I was curious and bored."
<vashti> I think it's something you could use for good.
<ellie> "No one would've been able to resist it, not even me."
<vashti> and indiscriminate mass-murder is never good.
<vashti> *yes*, precisely.
<vashti> and that's an interesting thing, really interesting. you take a light who's so heavily enculturated against killing, who knows firsthand what the world rotting *really looks like*.
<vashti> and give him the book.
<vashti> and what does he do with it.
<vashti> do you mind if I lj-cut this?
<ellie> Not at all!
<vashti> it's interesting chatter.
<vashti> oh god, the girl in the snow.
<ellie> The one from the church?
<vashti> The one whose family take her north.
<ellie> Ahhhhh, yes.
<vashti> "We lived in Tokyo, and my father was prominent. He knew about the evacuation well before it was announced; he had us living out of the car at Yokohama Port. We were on one of the first ships to leave. But nobody who wasn't near the coast got out - well, almost nobody. The air evacuation got a few out. And it was no guarantee to be near the sea, either. If we'd lived on Kyushu, in Kagoshima or Nagasaki, it
<vashti> would have been a death sentence - because that was where they came from, you understand, from Korea. We thought we'd isolated ourselves, but they came out of the water."
<vashti> lol zombies are korean.
<vashti> *Of course* there's nationalism.
<vashti> I think there's enough time, probably, for them to close the ports before the panic hits.
<vashti> they try and seal themselves in.
<vashti> but. -_-
<vashti> oh god, I know why he keeps the book on him.
<vashti> besides keeping it.
<vashti> like keeping it safe. It's his exit clause.
<vashti> if he's ever in a no-win situation, he can write himself down.
<ellie> Eeeee, yeah.
<ellie> This Mello is coming out more formal than the others, for some reason.
<ellie> Oh huh.
<ellie> Maybe because he has to have a certain manner to command respect in the army.
<vashti> He's military formal, isn't he.
<vashti> also jinx.
<ellie> Totally different from the one that would get Mel and Surly respect in the Mafia.
<vashti> Yep, exactly. Exactly.
<vashti> this Light talks like tinkling glass.
<ellie> Go, ellie's subconscious!
<vashti> ELLIE'S SUBCONSCIOUS IS WIN.
<ellie> It is not a safe place. But I like it that way.
<vashti> until he gets irate, or outraged. And then it's not sam the eagle so much as - hm. Ripley.
<vashti> sigourney weaver, not jude law.
<ellie> I think this Mello gets very very cold when he's *really* pissed.
<ellie> As they all sort of do.
<ellie> Like, Mel swears *less*, Surly gets real quiet.
<vashti> But this one locks down. He doesn't have the "you'll respect me because I'm a mad batshit bastard" going on.
<vashti> Even though he'll do far more damage.
<ellie> It's a form of deliberately shutting down because they *know* they're emotional, I think.
<vashti> like Light's outward manner.
<vashti> the frost over the river.
<ellie> "I will stare at you until you break and shoot you in the back as you walk away."
<ellie> (Oh god.)
<ellie> He would!
<ellie> He's a pretty scary one!
<vashti> I think Light initially remains attached to the hospital because he knows it will get him and his family fed through the winter.
<vashti> and Mello is
<vashti> I fear him.
<ellie> That means I'm doin it rite.
<ellie> he's scarier than the others!
<ellie> The others count of charm to get at least some of what they want.
<vashti> The zombies are scarier than Kira.
<ellie> *count on
<vashti> far worse.
<vashti> Light is like - disgusted by what Kira does, but the death count sounds trivial to him.
<vashti> what makes it horrific is that it's a *person* doing it.
<ellie> And these kids are in a world where charm doesn't help them in their fight.
<vashti> Charm only works on what can be charmed.
<ellie> Being smart and tough and ruthless does.
<vashti> and in the military, in wartime, fuck off cat, you do what you're told or you get shot.
<vashti> Charm is not involved.
<ellie> And this Mello is used to being obeyed without question.
<ellie> Because God and country dictate that he should be.
<vashti> How do you see the God thing in the empire?
<ellie> Together, in one voice.
<vashti> Like, would there be pressure on the Japanese to conform?
<ellie> I don't think they'd *want* the refugees to assimilate into their culture.
<vashti> Racism. They don't want them.
<ellie> There might even be an element of "they don't deserve to be part of the Empire"?
<vashti> there are asiatics in Russia, though.
<ellie> Not even racism so much as xenophobia.
<ellie> They have a different perspective, a different agenda. They couldn't be counted on to be loyal.
<vashti> So their camp is probably pretty much autonomous.
<vashti> They're given the land and left to it. They don't merit help.
<vashti> Not when there are however many loyal Russians starving.
<ellie> The Russians don't *have* help to give them.
<vashti> no, precisely.
<ellie> But yeah, they wouldn't admit that.
<vashti> Do you think there'd be a military presence at all? To keep them in line for whatever reason?
<vashti> Or, again, not worth the effort?
<ellie> I think there'd be a token presence.
<ellie> Enough to keep up appearances.
<ellie> To give the impression the empire is stronger than it is, even.
<vashti> "we haven't just abandoned them!"
<ellie> "Don't think about trying to take over."
<vashti> "this isn't your land, we're tolerating you."
<ellie> And also, yes. "We can take care of people."
<vashti> Are they brutal?
<vashti> Like, if someone gets out of line will they pay for it?
<ellie> There are probably so few military at the camp that they wouldn't be brutal unless they *had* to be?
<vashti> That makes sense.
<ellie> They don't want an uprising, they're staggeringly outnumbered.
<vashti> They're just a liaison.
<ellie> But if someone tries to start a panic, or seems likely to be infected, they will vanish, I bet.
<vashti> if someone was infected the military wouldn't have to kill them.
<vashti> I think probably half the people in the camp don't make it through the winter.
<ellie> And the camp *can't* have had anyone infected.
<vashti> I think people are checked before they're allowed onto anything official leaving Japan.
<ellie> Between the boats and the checking in.
<vashti> And they're checked on the way in.
<vashti> there were, of course, any number of unofficial things leaving japan.
<vashti> "And it wasn't just ships, either. Tankers, fishing boats, pleasure craft, yachts. Dinghies, inflatables. I hear people even built rafts, in the end."
<ellie> They keep the borders as closed as they can manage.
<vashti> but, russia.
<vashti> closed borders, lol.
<vashti> I wonder how organised the evacuation process is.
<vashti> besides "not terribly". is anyone trying to organise people?
<vashti> I can't imagine it would be a situation where what food there was was allowed into private hands. I think it would be heavily, heavily guarded.
<ellie> I have no idea.
<vashti> That everyone would be given *something* to do, to keep them from lying down and dying.
<vashti> which plenty would do anyway. :/
<ellie> Probably they *try* to give people stuff to do.
<ellie> But, Siberia. Not like they can garden. :/
<vashti> Actually, Kamchatka's not that bad.
<vashti> There's snow on the ground for like ... october through may. :/
<ellie> Oooh, I did not know this!
<vashti> but they'd be able to grow at least a few things.
<vashti> I looked it up! It's warmer than Hokkaido, which isn't to say much.
<vashti> I imagine it would be a situation where everyone would grow everything they could.
<ellie> Probably they have constant patrols around the edges of the camp.
<vashti> They could fish, if they could find anyone willing to go near the sea.
<ellie> Which I expect people would volunteer for. It's in their interest too.
<ellie> Like, if you have anything resembling a weapon, make yourself useful.
<vashti> Yeah, exactly.
<ellie> And I don't think they'd have to coerce anyone.
<vashti> It seems like everyone is packing some kind of edged weapon, by the end.
<vashti> Right into the present of the book.
<vashti> sashimi knives and cleavers and swords.
<ellie> Ooh, I bet Mello has a backup hand-to-hand weapon on him.
<ellie> Or two.
<ellie> He does not seem to type to rely on an AK-47 that may predate *him*.
<vashti> lilah thinks the yagamis seem like an old money family.
<ellie> I don't know what old money looks like in Japan.
<vashti> I'm wondering if one of Light's grandfathers might have been a military officer.
<ellie> But I bet she's right!
<vashti> they've got that house.
<ellie> Yeahhh, Light seems to take his privilege for granted in a way that suggests it's not new.
<vashti> they're not doing that on a civil servant's salary, even a high-ranking one.
<vashti> exactly yes.
<vashti> it's something he's known all his life.
<vashti> it's an interesting name too.
<vashti> like they came out of the priesthood or something.
<vashti> (either that or they started out as nightsoil collectors, but they're not burakumin)
<ellie> That made me giggle.
<vashti> Just as planned. :)
<vashti> Basically, I really want Light to have a sword, because I think it would be cool.
<vashti> but at the same time I don't want to do it *just* because it's cool.
<ellie> I think if he could get one, had one in the family, he's smart enough to know it would be really really good to have.
<ellie> Like, to hang onto it at all costs.
<vashti> it would be like the one the kid in the book has, the type 94.
<vashti> anything older would be destroyed by law. you know soichiro wouldn't keep it.
<vashti> stupid antonyms.
<vashti> I think Soichiro would have it, and the rest of them would have serious kitchen knives or whatever.
<vashti> gyaah, ellie, I bet he swaps with Light before putting him on the boat.
<ellie> :O Ohhhhh. *_*